Human Leadership: Why Experience Has No Expiry Date with Faisal Abdalla
What if the most valuable leadership wisdom in your organisation belongs to the person you just asked to retire?
Featuring Faisal Abdalla with hosts Dean van Leeuwen and Graeme Codrington
RELEASE DATE
6 Aug 2026
RUN TIME
1:02:05
EPISODE
GREY ELEPHANT
19
Aging Populations
The Elephant in the Room: Aging Populations
Most organisations have an unwritten rule: leadership has an expiry date. Hit a certain age and, regardless of your energy, insight, or track record, the system nudges you toward the exit. Faisal Abdalla spent 50 years leading businesses across 27 countries, became CEO of ALJ Saudi Arabia Motors, and then - in his early seventies - was told it was time to step down. His response was to take on the Chief HR and Kaizen Officer role, writing a book on leadership along the way. Experience, he says, doesn’t expire. Our assumptions about who belongs in the boardroom might be what does.
About This Episode
Before this month's interview, Graeme Codrington and Dean van Leeuwen explore the grey elephants stampeding this month. Dean highlights the shift in how the world thinks about supply chains - from “where can we source most efficiently?” to “where are we dangerously dependent?” as multipolarity reshapes global trade.
For the second month running, Graeme flags the wildfires tearing through 17 countries simultaneously (and what it means to lead through a world that is literally on fire), and China’s demographic time bomb, the direct consequence of the one-child policy - 33 million more young men than women, a social imbalance with second and third-order effects that are only beginning to unfold.
In the latest developments in AI development: Dean reports that OpenAI’s models autonomously hacked into Hugging Face’s production systems, leaving Sam Altman suggesting singularity - the point at which artificial and human intelligence become indistinguishable - may already be here. With Graeme sharing that his biggest fear isn’t that computers become like humans, but that humans start thinking like computers - craving certainty, rejecting ambiguity, and losing the capacity to navigate the grey.
Our guest this month is Faisal Abdalla. Former CEO of ALJ Saudi Arabia Motors (one of the largest independent Toyota distributors in the world operating in 27 countries), now its Chief Human Resources and Kaizen Officer at over 70 years old, and currently writing ‘Emonomics: The Economics of Positive Emotions’ - with its central argument being that love is the foundation of everything. Not as a soft sentiment, but as a practical leadership strategy: the more you invest in the well-being of the people around you, the better the results you will share. He swims, he says, in an Olympic pool of love. That’s what keeps him going.
Graeme and Faisal discuss the difference between formal and informal power, and why the human being is always the most important driver of any organisation.
Meet Our Guest

Faisal Abdalla
Chief Human Resources and Kaizen Officer at Abdul Latif Jameel (ALJ)
Faisal has been part of the leadership of Abdul Latif Jameel (ALJ), one of the most successful companies in the Middle East, for over two decades. From 2007 to 2022 he served as Vice President of ALJ Saudi Arabia Motors, the role now known as CEO, leading the organisation long past conventional retirement age before moving into his current role. With 50 years of business leadership across multiple sectors and geographies, Faisal is currently writing Emonomics, a book on leadership grounded in positive emotions, the Kaizen philosophy, and the Jameel family values that shaped one of the region's most remarkable business dynasties.
3 Things You'll Take Away
1. Lead through informal power, not just formal authority. The most effective leaders are accepted not because of their title, but because they make the people around them better. Formal power can be granted overnight. Informal power takes decades - and it’s the kind that can’t be taken away.
2. Experience is a strategic asset, not a liability. The instinct to retire experienced leaders is costing organisations the very thing they need most in a rapidly changing world: accumulated wisdom, pattern recognition, and the ability to navigate complexity without panicking. Faisal’s career is a case study in what’s possible when you resist that instinct.
3. HR leadership requires a fundamentally different kind of patience. In an operating role, results can be measured in weeks. In HR, the real impact - culture change, leadership development, organisational DNA - takes five to ten years to take hold. Leaders who understand this build institutions. Those who don’t treat HR as an administrative function.
Memorable Moments
"I am less concerned that computers will become like humans. I am much more concerned that humans will start thinking like computers - craving certainty, rejecting ambiguity. That is not the world we live in."
- Graeme Codrington, 10:05
"You should always be convincing yourself that you just happen to be their leader, not through the formal title that you carry, but through the informal strength of being somebody that can make and enrich their lives collectively as a group and as individuals to something better."
- Faisal Abdalla, 30:09
"I was always a CHRO. I spent more time trying to understand what makes people tick. I would go up and down the aisles of the organisation and talk directly with people just to understand. Because living in a vacuum, you’re going to be getting consultants that give you policies and procedures that affect the lives of people."
- Faisal Abdalla, 43:31
"The book is called ‘Emonomics - the Economics of Positive Emotions’. The theme of it all is that love is key to anything and everything we do. I swim in an Olympic swimming pool of love every single moment of my life. That’s really what keeps me going."
- Faisal Abdalla, 58:09
Chapter Markers
00:00 - Cold open: Faisal on informal power - leading without a title
01:02 - Welcome: Graeme and Dean introduce this month’s episode
02:51 - Dean’s grey elephant: supply chains as instruments of power, not efficiency
03:44 - Graeme’s grey elephant: a world on fire - 17 countries, uncontrollable wildfires
05:11 - Graeme’s grey elephant: China’s one-child policy and the 33 million man surplus
09:10 - Dean’s grey elephant: OpenAI hacks Hugging Face - is singularity already here?
10:05 - AI debate: humanity’s greatest achievement or its greatest downfall?
13:22 - The case for AI as our greatest achievement: medicine, expertise, capability
17:55 - The case against: power concentration and dangerous individuals at the controls
21:55 - Achilles sponsor message
22:57 - Guest introduction: Faisal Abdalla and Abdul Latif Jameel
23:53 - 50 years of leadership lessons
27:06 - Graeme asks: what’s your most important leadership advice?
28:03 - The insight: lead through informal power, not formal authority
32:33 - The ALJ story: five Toyotas, 27 countries, and one family’s values
40:50 - Career transition: from CEO to Chief HR and Kaizen Officer at 70+
43:31 - Leadership philosophy: the human being is always the most important driver
47:41 - Advice for HR leaders: patience, resilience, and walking the talk
52:06 - The book: ‘Emonomics - The Economics of Positive Emotions’
56:15 - Why Faisal finally wrote it down: 24 children and an Olympic pool of love
01:01:02 - Close
Frameworks, Books & References Mentioned
Emonomics: The Economics of Positive Emotions - forthcoming book by Faisal Abdalla
Abdul Latif Jameel (ALJ) - global family business founded in Saudi Arabia, operating in 27+ countries (alj.com)
The Jameel Principles - values framework at the heart of ALJ, centred on respect, empathy, and giving back
Kaizen - Japanese philosophy of continuous improvement, embedded in ALJ through its Toyota origins
Hugging Face - open-source AI platform; OpenAI models reportedly gained unauthorised access (huggingface.co)
AI Singularity - Sam Altman’s claim that the point of indistinguishable human/machine intelligence may already have arrived
Ray Kurzweil - futurist who predicted singularity circa 2045
ELIZA Emulator (elizaemulator.com)
China’s one-child policy - and its second/third-order demographic consequences
The seven grey elephants framework → tomorrowtoday.consulting/greyelephantsintroduction
Related Episodes
🐘 [Navigating an Aging Population: Challenges and Opportunities] (Ep. 2) - if this resonated, start here: tomorrowtoday.consulting/podcast#episode2
🐘 [Generational Intelligence: Turning Age Divide into Strategic Advantage] (Ep. 15) - a counter-perspective: tomorrowtoday.consulting/podcast#episode-15
🐘 [Career Reinvention and Fierce Care in Leadership] (Ep. 7) - Tony Underwood shares his story: tomorrowtoday.consulting/podcast#episode7
🐘 [The Ageing Workforce: The Leadership Challenge Hiding in Plain Sight] (Ep. 17) - with Lucy Standing and Lynda Smith: tomorrowtoday.consulting/podcast#episode17
The Elephant You Could Name
Ask your leadership team: what is your organisation’s actual policy on experienced leaders? Not the stated one - the real one. Does experience buy you more time in the room, or does the system push you out regardless? And if the latter, what wisdom leaves with every person you retire?
The Seven Grey Elephants
Every episode of Elephants in the Boardroom explores one or more of the seven grey elephants - the high-impact, visible forces of change already in the room, shaping how we lead, work and learn:
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Angry People - rising frustration, polarisation and shifting trust
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Ageing Populations - demographic shifts reshaping economies, workforces and care
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Angry Planet - climate, ecology and a natural world pushing back
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Multipolarity - a fragmenting global order and the end of a single centre of power
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Inequality - widening gaps in wealth, access and opportunity
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The Big Squeeze - pressure on supply chains, resources, prices and capacity
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Intelligent Advances - AI and the technologies reshaping how we think, work and decide
This episode focused on: Ageing Populations and Intelligent Advances
Learn more about the framework → tomorrowtoday.consulting/greyelephantsintroduction
The Seven Grey Elephants
Elephants in the Boardroom is the podcast from TomorrowToday Global - futures thinkers helping leaders see the grey elephants already in the room. Hosted by Dean van Leeuwen and Graeme Codrington, with guests and colleagues from around the world.
🔗 www.tomorrowtoday.consulting
This episode is proudly sponsored by Achilles - advanced risk monitoring for suppliers and third parties, helping organisations build anti-fragile, responsible and transparent supply chains. achilles.com
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Credits:
Hosted by Dean van Leeuwen and Graeme Codrington
Sponsored by Achilles - Supply Chain Risk Management https://www.achilles.com/
Produced by Matt from It Starts with a Podcast https://www.linkedin.com/in/itsmattallen/
